49 replies to this topic

[MichaelMcGee]

:ph34r:

[Byte_Ripper]

Here is my 50cents on this manner:

If I were an Owner of an IT company and you came to me asking me for a job telling me that you have over 15 years experience simply what I would do is put you to the test, Have you Examine, Design, Troubleshoot, Implement and Configure to the fullest what it is that I want achieved at my IT department if you succeed you have the job and you don't need a piece of paper, if you don't you better go out and at least spend the time to get the certs "piece of paper" in order for me to even consider giving you a job.

I say if you want to know if a person is worth hiring don't just go by how many "pieces of paper" they have, take the time to test and survey those individuals u will have better results this way.

feedback on my comments will be greatly apreciated.

cheers

[abstrackt]

My opinion is that even though the person should get the job with that level of experience, they should still go out and get the certification as well.  I mean, with 10 or more years of experience with computers it shouldn't be too difficult to go out and write the exams.  Unfortunately, my personal experience has been that many people (and companies) look at how many pieces of paper (degree, certification, etc) you have before even asking how long you were doing anything.  And if you have that level of expertise but no certification some people may wonder why you never went ahead and did it, ultimately bringing your motivation and dedication to your work into question.  That's my little bit of devil's advocate for the day.  

[Warfare]

It's nothing personal really, people like that piece of paper validating skills.  

[abstrackt]

I know it's nothing personal, but I don't think that the piece of paper is what should be taken so seriously, it doesn't always validate what you're capable of.  I mean, I went to school with a guy who literally bought half his assignments from other people and in the end we both have the same degree.  I'm aware that any employer who chooses him will likely be kicking themselves in about 24 hours, but as someone who lost a lot of sleep trying to get projects done on time it really doesn't seem fair for someone else to cheat the system like that.  Of course, I did find a job faster than him... *eg*

I think it'd be great to do what was mentioned earlier; just make the person take a test and either they pass or fail it.  As an employer you'd know exactly what you're getting.

[hempyuk]

i think the certs are inportant as it shows an employer what level of knowledge you are at and think how long an interview would take if they made you do tests every interveiw and think how nervous you are at interviews it would make things a whole lot worse.

hemp  
____________________
big up the certs
http://www.markscomputerguide.co.uk

[Valdipants]

My opinion on this matter is that even though as a 10 year experienced technician you are probably well beyond a newly certified technician with no experience you have to think of it from an employers point of view. A certification is sort of like a guarantee to your employer. Just like when you buy a product and one has a guarantee the other does not while the one without a guarantee might be better wich one would make you feel safer? the one with or without the guarantee?

[tony]

Bottom line is that someone with or without certification can be good or bad at their job. But at least with certification employers know you must in the least have some knowledge to be employed on. And these are times for 'paperwork'.

[Eric]

I feel that having a paper cert. won't just do it for you. You need to also know what to do "hands on" in order for you to be successful as well.

[laldrich]

Granted, a cert is not a true indication of one's abilities in any given field. There are some folks out there with industry certs that I wouldn't want washing my dog, much less mangaing my network. But consider this... over the long run the average potential employee who comes to hiring table with a cert has a bigger advantage than one who has nothing.

Unfair? Maybe, depending on the true skill level of those two mythical job-seekers.

Real World? Sure is.

[LeWy]

I think experience is more valueable than some type of certification because even though it shows that you know everything behind that type of expertise, doesn't really mean you will be totally successful out in the field.

[jughead]

The only thing a certification means is that you can pass a test.  Education and testing is an attempt to simulate the real world in a sterile environment where you can learn and your mistakes won't be costly.  It's a very poor simulation.   Your REAL education comes when you get that first job and you are sent out on a trouble call.  If the boss is at all 'on the ball' he will know about what you will see before he even sends you out.  In fact, he could probably handle the call over the phone.  It's just his way of giving you a chance to show what you can do.  The real skill in troubleshooting is working on something and not breaking something else or making what you are working on any worse.  That isn't taught in school.  It can only be learned by making hundreds of trouble calls of all types.  Many 'trouble' calls aren't problems with the equipment at all, but are problems with people.  In fact, I'd say somewhere around half.  The more complicated a piece of equipment is, the more people don't understand and the easier it can be to screw something up.  You can have excellent equipment repairing skills but still not make it on the job without people skills.  After all, people are much more complicated than machines.  As far as I'm concerned, certifications are only a marketing tool used by employers, schools, and employment agencies.  Eveyone is out there making a buck. It cost over 150 bucks to take the A+   OS test.  The guy at Prometrics says that he only gets 10 bucks per test, per person.  More than 140 bucks must end up at Prometrics.  Sounds like a nice profit center for them.  

I would't even be bothering with this certication thing at all if my employer wasn't making it clear that there would be future discrimination against those who did not certify.  I've been in this computer racket since the beginning and could retire, but I'm not going to be shoved out unless it's on MY terms.  

For the younger crowd just getting started, go for it.  Get all the certifications you can.  It can only help, but realize that your education will never end.  You can be sure that when you are near the end of your career someone will be wanting you to again prove that you learn all about the latest and greatest thing that's coming out at the time.  You can expect to pay to show that you can do what you've been doing for lots of years.

[kpak44wh]

I worked on computer for almost 13 years.  If this is your life, get the cert.  It shows everyone else that you can do the job,  the experience will get you over others, but not without the certification.  I know people who got the job over me just because they went to college and got a cert.  They weren't any better, but that's what the business look for.    Yeah, it sucks but that's the way it is.  One employer told me it doesn't matter  how much experience I have , if I don't have my certs he won't hire me.

[Kaspiahn]

I just got called by a temp agency. They want me to install 2 servers(IBMx226).
The woman I spoke to said they concidered me for this job because I had included "A+ Certified" on my resume. Now I have never installed a server before, but I was told that because I am A+ certified it should be no problem.
That tells me how much weight is given to certs.
Go get them if you can afford them. They'll pay for themselves in the long run.

[inite32]

As anything in this world, you have to have the education behind you to suceed, just because someone has been cutting up cats in his back yard, doesn't make him qualified to cut me open because he has REAL WORLD experience in surgery, I know what your talking about when it comes to computers, yes many of us, I INCLUDED have dabbled with taking apart the computer, or going in and seeing what happens when you DELETE this file hehe, but no one in their right mind will trust me to work for their company until I either demonstrate that I can do the job called for, or I have that Certification, I know for me, I have the experience, but there is so much more I have to learn, and that will come with the studying of my certs. Good luck on your Survey.

[Vlad11]

I myself would say NO.

If someone has enough dedication to work in this field for 10-15 years than they should be sufficiently knowledgeable about it. They shouldn't be required to have the certifications but maybe some other test given by the company.

[TheWiseGuy]

but lets face it.. if u dont have certs, you are not goin to get the job.  Im currently in college taking Computer Networking  Technican course.  My diploma i will recieve is crap without atleast one cert to go along wit it.  A cert proves you went that extra mile to prove ur knowledge.

[ipchain]

A cert proves you went that extra mile to prove ur knowledge.

Agreed. Unfortunately, most employers nowadays are looking for experience. While certs are definitely going to help by showing "you went that extra mile", experience is always preferred in my opinion.

I am not stating this out of the blue, I am saying it because I have recently gone through a job hunt myself, and have seen how it is in the real world.

In conclusion, please do get the certs, but also try to get an intership or something of that sort while you're in college.

[pughster25]

I took a contract after doing a monts intensive IT training and ended up getting a salary of £28,000 not back for my first job with no real certs

[Viridian]

Anyone can forge a Resume by saying they have more experience than they do but by having the piece of paper wether it be a degree or cert it proves it.  So in my opinion you need both.