41 replies to this topic

[leschua75]

I read a little more about the expiry change, and seems like the main push for re-certification is that they've joined up with the ISO...and they require that any certifications from accredited associations be able to be renewed to show current proficiency.  I would have hoped that CompTIA would have given folks a heads up as they were going through the ISO application/approval process so that we'd not be blind-sided by all this, but it seems like they wanted to play their cards close in case it didn't go through.  In hindsight, probably not the best move on their part.  

In general, this affiliation with the ISO is a good thing - it's an international organization that carries a lot of weight, and having that kind of backing will give CompTIA a good deal more credibility, once the whole kerfuffle about this unforeseen change to their cert expiry blows over.

being ISO certified is nothing nowadays. Just need to pay maintenance fees for ISO certifications. Alot of small firms are also ISO certify including the company I am working in but the operation are still as messy as ever. I dun think that being ISO certify means you should for go your integrity. At least show us the ISO clause that says the certificates must be re-certify. You even larger firms like microsoft do not have iso certifications?

[DarrilGibson]

I read a little more about the expiry change, and seems like the main push for re-certification is that they've joined up with the ISO...and they require that any certifications from accredited associations be able to be renewed to show current proficiency.  I would have hoped that CompTIA would have given folks a heads up as they were going through the ISO application/approval process so that we'd not be blind-sided by all this, but it seems like they wanted to play their cards close in case it didn't go through.  In hindsight, probably not the best move on their part.  

In general, this affiliation with the ISO is a good thing - it's an international organization that carries a lot of weight, and having that kind of backing will give CompTIA a good deal more credibility, once the whole kerfuffle about this unforeseen change to their cert expiry blows over.

I agree.  In the long term, I think the change will be positive, but in the short it is causing quite a kerfuffle.  

Kerfuffle. I like that word.  (I never heard it before and it sent me to the wiktionary, but it fits well.)

Darril Gibson
Author: CompTIA Security+: Get Certified Get Ahead
ISBN-10: 1439236364

[leschua75]

I agree.  In the long term, I think the change will be positive, but in the short it is causing quite a kerfuffle.  

Kerfuffle. I like that word.  (I never heard it before and it sent me to the wiktionary, but it fits well.)

Darril Gibson
Author: CompTIA Security+: Get Certified Get Ahead
ISBN-10: 1439236364

Dudes. I have check with a qa manager colleague in charge of my office ISO certification and he says that any documents or procedures pior to ISO certification do not need to be change after getting ISO certified. He also mentioned that wat comptia did was towards monetary gains.

[ebiker]

if they can simply changed it from no expiry to 3 years. how can we make sure that they will not do it again like changing from 3 years to 1 year? this comptia talks like a kid with no integrity. I am not trusting them anymore.

For real, surface mount caps start going bad in about 3 years.  Some don't last that long.

If cap tech keeps this up then in the future caps will only last about 1 year.

They don't want that stuff fixed, they want people to buy new stuff.

I know people that all they do is change surface mount caps, all day.  $ $ $

Still lots of money to be made in the electronics repair game.

[leschua75]

For real, surface mount caps start going bad in about 3 years.  Some don't last that long.

If cap tech keeps this up then in the future caps will only last about 1 year.

They don't want that stuff fixed, they want people to buy new stuff.

I know people that all they do is change surface mount caps, all day.  $ $ $

Still lots of money to be made in the electronics repair game.

Do you really thinks that they are worried that you guys cannot catch up with the technology? More about $$ maybe.

Just look at their recertification rules.

This renewing the "highest ranking cert in order to renew them all" policy is just to ease the angry population. Renewing CCNP revalidates CCNA because both are networking based certifications. Comptia is offering multiple certifications. So how can a security+ related to network + or A+? or vise versa.

[ebiker]

Do you really thinks that they are worried that you guys cannot catch up with the technology? More about $$ maybe.

Just look at their recertification rules.

This renewing the "highest ranking cert in order to renew them all" policy is just to ease the angry population. Renewing CCNP revalidates CCNA because both are networking based certifications. Comptia is offering multiple certifications. So how can a security+ related to network + or A+? or vise versa.

The main difference in the new stuff is that alot of it's cheap, buggy made in China junk !

Then when there is a problem you have to call India for tech support and wait on the phone for 2 hours and they don't know the answer either !

And they think the problem is techs are not tested enough ?

[dmarsh]

ISO requiring that certified individuals be able to renew their credentials.

As far as I can tell ISO does not require this, it appears like a drive by CompTia to win more US DoD certification work.

As has also been said by others, employers wanted a way to be sure that their certified employees are up on current technology, rather than resting on the laurels of a cert they got umpteen years ago.

In the UK its invariably the tech that spends their own time and money, they are the customer to CompTia and should be respected. Most employers do not rate certifications highly in my experience, I can't see this move helping at all.

Some bosses aren't tech-savvy, and they aren't able to determine for themselves whether someone is up on new technology (i.e., when HR folks have just been told to get someone with XYZ certs), so having to have their credentials renewed periodically gives them some relief.

The answer is quite simple, non tech savy people should not perform technical interviews.

I think this is a really bad move for all concerned, if you want to read my thoughts see here :-

Comptia recertification / expiry disscussion 1
Comptia recertification / expiry disscussion 2

Edited by dmarsh, 16 January 2010 - 11:14 AM.

[Keollyn]

I'm just gonna go in with the idea that what certs I get now, will help me get into the job I currently want. Afterward, I'll look into certs that will expand my marketability and skill further than the previous certs, and therefore, could care less about renewing expired certs (unless it's something like CCIE or something)

The important thing is having the job and experience. If you have that, most certs are unnecessary.

[Keollyn]

The answer is quite simple, non tech savy people should not perform technical interviews.

So danm true. So danm true.

Edited by Keollyn, 16 January 2010 - 12:45 PM.

[dmarsh]

It's actually a requirement for the ANSI/ISO/IEC 17024 Personnel Certification Program, which is what CompTIA has joined up to and agreed to abide by.  You can't access ANSI/ISO's documents regarding the requirements directly unless you're a member or pay for the documents, but I did find a presentation from a company who became part of the program, and they outline the requirements very clearly.  See slide 16 - recertification is a requirement of the program.

Fair point from what I read it seemed to be a 'reccomendation' not a requirement, without a lawyer or compliance expert I guess we will not know.

Apparently CompTia have had ANSI compliance since 2007 so I doubt that is the reason.

Directive 8570.1 for the US government appears to be the primary driver.

http://www.slideshare.net/gtslearning/comp...directive-85701

Considering this is an international certification this is an absurd reason for the changes, hence maybe why the ISO explanation ?

In any case ISO complaince is not important to me and was not why I took the cert, lifetime certification was. I paid for my own cert, not my employer.

Different employers will value certifications differently.  Some will require them and some will pay for them, some won't.  Who pays for them doesn't play into the validity and respect that the certification gets, and I think it will earn CompTIA some more credibility to be affiliated with ANSI/ISO.

Plenty of ISO standards exist, some good some not so good, I really don't see it making any difference.

That would severely limit the jobs that tech people would get - using that logic, then any small company that doesn't have a large IT department shouldn't ever interview to hire an IT person.  Quite often, HR people will do at least the first round of interviews, and they are often given a listing of the credentials needed.

Small companies should probably get references or use an outsource partner.

It does not limit the jobs people can get, it merely affects how people get recruited. In some cases agencies or service partners can help recruit.

Having people not qualified make judgements is no way to run a business. Having HR determine technical ability using purely certifications is foolhardy at best.

In the UK CompTia credentials are rarely listed and certainly never mandated.

Edited by dmarsh, 16 January 2010 - 04:53 PM.

[leschua75]

Personally, I totally see the connection.  Security+ builds on Network+ concepts which builds upon A+ concepts.  You don't have to take all of them, but it's not like they're entirely unrelated as you're implying.  They're all relatively entry level troubleshooting-related certifications that are meant to show at least a basic proficiency for tech's.

well..i am not gonna retake any entry level certs and comptia can just kiss my a.. was intending to take the security + as well but forget it.. It is like asking me to retake my high school exams when I already have a degree.

[dmarsh]

It's actually a requirement for the ANSI/ISO/IEC 17024 Personnel Certification Program, which is what CompTIA has joined up to and agreed to abide by.  You can't access ANSI/ISO's documents regarding the requirements directly unless you're a member or pay for the documents, but I did find a presentation from a company who became part of the program, and they outline the requirements very clearly.  See slide 16 - recertification is a requirement of the program.

It appears the Certification Vendor must undergo 'Surveillance and recertification' in order to maintain ANSI/ISO accreditation, this is quite different to the certification vendors certification programs requiring recertification! This is what your powerpoint is refering to!
It appears this is just a very unfortunate wording, really it should be 'reaccreditation'.

Here is directive 8570.1 :-

http://www.slideshare.net/gtslearning/comp...directive-85701
http://www.ittrainingblog.com/2009/07/depa...ctive-8570.html

Microsoft have ANSI/ISO accreditation even though they don't expire.

http://www.redorbit.com/news/technology/17...rams/index.html

Wikipedia has CompTia ANSI accredited from 2007. (Ok you can dispute this source.)

So here has CompTia ANSI accredited from 2008 :-

https://www.ansica.org/wwwversion2/outside/...93&status=4

So I'm still not certain recertification or CPD vetting is mandated by ISO/IEC 17024.

Documents are here :-

http://publicaa.ansi.org/sites/apdl/Docume...0-BABEEC5D7C60}

Does not seem mandatory from what I've read so far...

Here is what it says on Certification recertification :-

Re-certification is a process of confirming conformity with current certification
requirements. The scheme committee of the certification body should establish the
rationale for the re-certification period. The rationale may be based on the
consideration of:

the maturity of the industry and associated risks in which the scheme is
delivered;methods and frequency established for re-certification should be determined by
the scheme committee

changing body of knowledge;
survey data;
requirements of stakeholders;
expert opinions;
regulatory requirements.

G.6.5.2 In accordance with the certification scheme, re-certification by the certification body
may include but is not limited to:

on site assessment;
professional development with an examination component;
structured interviews;
confirmation of continuing satisfactory work and work experience record;
examination;
checks on physical capability.

G.6.5.3 The , taking into account any applicable normative criteria, and shall
be appropriate to the purpose of re-certification (see G.6.5.1). Where initial
examination of competence includes a practical element, the re-certification process
should also include a practical examination administered by the certification body.

So in essence we really cannot say, it would be down to a disscusion between ISO and CompTia and only they know what really happened. I see no particular reason that CompTia would be held to a higher standard than MS or for its previous ANSI accreditation.

From what I can tell it would be down to CompTia to make their case for or against re-certification, it sounds like they chose an 8570.1 amendment as an argument for.

Edited by dmarsh, 17 January 2010 - 12:59 PM.

[DarrilGibson]

Based on what I'm reading here with the links people have provided and what I've been able to see on my own, the ISO reasoning seems quite thin.

This link http://news.thomasnet.com/companystory/543082 indicates CompTIA was ANSI/ISO/IEC 17024 accredited in March 2008.  If recertification is a ANSI/ISO/IEC 17024 requirement, it appears as though the standardization organization (ANSI/ISO/IEC) didn't follow their own standards before approving CompTIA.  

CompTIA realy seems to be losing the PR war on this one.  It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.

Darril Gibson
Author: CompTIA Security+: Get Certified Get Ahead
ISBN-10: 1439236364

[ebiker]

Feeling blindsided by comptia. They are only making you renew the 3 most popular certs.
Security, Network & A+
I quess the others (like my PDI+) are no longer important!!!!!!
To see my full rant... go to:

http://www.proprofs.com/forums/index.php?s...c=26297&hl=


spy

I was on the  advisory committee of the local public tech school when they decided to dummy down the electronics program to accommodate the newer students.

The drop out rate was increasing.

They decided to focus on getting the students to pass the A+ test.

We were told at that time is was a test that showed that the person had basic knowledge of computer repair.  That's all, the basics.  The basics don't change that much.

Wrist straps, don't bang around the hard drives, ect.

[dmarsh]

lol, yeah, 'kerfuffle' is one of my favorites.  I save it for special occasions such as this.  

I'd say it's more than a kerfuffle, I just wish if CompTia are going to fu&k me they would at least use lube !

[ebiker]

lol, yeah, 'kerfuffle' is one of my favorites.  I save it for special occasions such as this.  

Right ?  Windows kerfuffle (aka Vista).  The A+ test is not up to date.

Does it test Puppy Linux PC repair tool skills ?  I use them almost every day.

Yesterday I was with a student from the local public tech school.  I showed him some Puppy Linux troubleshooting tricks and he was blown away.  They don't teach that at his school because the A+ test does not require that ?

Does anyone use  kerfuffle (aka Vista) to troubleshoot ?

[leschua75]

join this facebook group.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/I-Boycott-Co...97464555?ref=ts

[ebiker]

We're getting a bit off topic here, and I'm not going to take the role of CompTIA's defender, but I'm not quite sure what you're getting at.  There are OODLES of tools that I use on a daily basis that aren't  covered by A+ or any other exam out there, and I don't expect them all  to be. The A+ exam (or any other exam out there for that matter) is never going to be 100% up to date on all the tools out there for two main reasons: they can't cover everything (there's too much out there and much of it is proprietary), and due to the exam creation/review process they will always be a little behind.  The new A+ exam does cover Vista, so as far as Windows based operating systems go, they are pretty up to date.  Windows 7 came out after the last revision of the objectives.

As for using Vista to troubleshoot, that's not what it's designed for.  However, I *do* use tools within Vista to do troubleshooting on a regular basis - there are some consoles you can use (or create yourself) that I find very helpful.  Linux OS's are a whole different bag, designed for users who like total control and the ability to tweak (and to take responsibility for when their tweaks don't work), and they're not generally geared for the average user or novice techie.  CompTIA also has a whole other exam for them, so I would venture to guess that would explain the lack of coverage of Linux OS's & tools on the A+ exam.

You are right.  The A+ test does not cover advanced PC troubleshooting at all.

Just the basics, that's all and they don't change.

And if you can work with Linux you really don't have to look very hard for work, right ?

Vista troubleshooting, ouch ! You get paid by the hour ?

Edited by ebiker, 22 January 2010 - 02:30 PM.

[ebiker]

I remember my first computer job.  Troubleshooting and writing test programs for the UYK-20 at Sperry computers.  I had to write test programs in machine language.

I was qualitifed for that job and could do it after attending my local public tech school for 1 1/2 years.

We learned 8085 machine code and had to design a small computer and wire wrap it for our final project.

Write a simple OS and burn it on an eprom too.

That was 1985.   Now they just have to pass the A+ test and now it is a joke.

Computer programs at the local public tech schools all across the country will have to change their ads.

They need to forget about the A+ test and get back to teaching computer electronics.

[Lobo240sx]

The main difference in the new stuff is that alot of it's cheap, buggy made in China junk !

Then when there is a problem you have to call India for tech support and wait on the phone for 2 hours and they don't know the answer either !

And they think the problem is techs are not tested enough ?

I have worked in the IT field for four years now. Yes it is very difficult to find an India person that actually knows there stuff.  All they do is go by a script word for word. If they feel you aren't troubleshooting by their script then they want to argue. While they "try" to use an American or Latino name. I think most people can tell between an India or Latino accent.  

When I did service calls for Dell at NCR and other contracts/accounts, it was the same bull. Most of the time we would have to call Level 2 or 3 which most of them were from India also!!! We were better off talking among ourselves to resolve an issue. I say probably 95% of the time we were correct before we called to verify that was the issue going on.

CompTIA is ripping people off by announcing this bull to everybody.  I will NOT ever re certify on any of these entry level certs that are useless in the tough job market now. Once you have your foot in the door, move on to Cisco cert or a Microsoft cert. Get re certified in that field's curriculum.